By Christine McTaggart
“A priest walks into a bar…..”
Most have heard the phrase before, usually as the opening of a joke. But for the clergy of two diocesan churches, the phrase is far from a joke. It is an act of invitation into open conversation on the spiritual and theological.
ST. PETER’S, CHARLOTTE
St. Peter’s, Charlotte, started Pub Theology years ago as an offering to engage the 20-and 30-somethings in the congregation and surrounding uptown Charlotte. As often happens, the offering, in practice, went differently than its original design, instead attracting to the weekly conversation a diverse mix of people of all ages, many of whom simply had questions.
“I remember in seminary, they said ‘We’re in a post-Christian era,’” said the Rev. Keith Lane, a retired priest who assists with various activities at St. Peter’s and who has led Pub Theology since the end of the pandemic. “I thought, ‘What the heck does that mean?’ Once I was in ministry, I realized what it meant was that there are a lot of people who don’t even know the basics of Christianity, or what they do know is wrong. So where do you go for open-ended opportunities to have an existential exchange and feel safe while doing it?”
For those in the Charlotte area, on the last Thursday of each month you go to Pub Theology at Sir Edmond Halley’s. Participants from a variety of backgrounds and belief systems gather to explore and discuss questions that range from “why are we here” to “why did God give alligators such sharp teeth?”
“You never know where the conversation will go,” said Lane. “But it opens up all these vistas of possibility that allow people to enter freely—and without judgement—into a discourse, and I would say discernment, about the will of God and the purpose of God in the world and in our lives.”
Lane believes the casual atmosphere of the pub contributes directly to the openness and honesty of the conversation. “It’s removed from any sense of hierarchy and distance,” he reflected. “We all experience holiness within the space of a church, but often for a lot of people, [it can] be like they’re in the audience. We’re part of it, but also separate from it in a certain way.”
Lane likens the atmosphere of the pub gatherings to communitarian experiences, or the experiences of the communities from which the Gospels came and the formal church was born. It gives those who take part a way to explore and experience God in ways they may not have before. For some in the conversation, it’s the first time considering all the ways God is part of the world; for others, it brings a new depth of understanding and meaning to rituals and sacraments in which they’ve taken part all their lives.
It is not only the lay folk who are enriched by the conversations. “When I first went to seminary,” said Lane, “my fantasy was to sit around a big table and talk about God and theology. It was that desire to be communitarian. Taking part in the Pub Theology conversations and hearing the questions—I hear questions asked I never thought of. And that makes me examine my own thought processes and theology and experiences. It causes me to more deeply examine my own beliefs and why I believe what I believe.”
Questions and conversations do not always center around the philosophical. One recent evening explored the question of how to navigate a world where Christianity has suddenly been labeled as a negative thing.
“Those kinds of questions really make me even more aware of the contemporary world we’re all living in,” said Lane. “It’s one thing for me as a priest to experience the journey of God and what Christianity means, but the secular world has a whole different understanding of what it means. I’m glad for the chance to have the conversation, because if I just lived in my own little bubble of understanding, what good does that do God’s mission?”
For the Rev. Jacob Pierce, rector of St. Peter’s, the questions at the heart of the conversations present another opportunity. “I’m always interested in what’s behind the questions,” he said. “Where are people coming from pastorally? What is their need or what are they experiencing? Often the questions about God reflect what’s going on in their lives. It gives me a chance to think about how I might be able to respond.”
Too, Pierce sees conversations like Pub Theology as an indirect gift to the church. “In meeting people where they are, in places like a restaurant or pub, it’s really reminding them we’re here. The church is here. You don’t have to come downtown to find us or look for the steeple. We’re here. We’re among you.”
The Pub Theology crew from St. Peter’s, Charlotte, gathers at Sir Edmond Halley’s. Photo courtesy of St. Peter’s
ST. TITUS’, DURHAM
St. Titus’, Durham, takes a different approach to their gatherings, though they are no less open and inviting. Structured as a Bible study, the Faith & Fractured gatherings take place Tuesday nights at the Congress Social Bar in Durham.
Started just this year during Lent, the offering was the idea of the Rev. Valerie Mayo, rector of St. Titus’, and Beverley Makhubele, a parishioner at St. Titus’ and owner of Congress.
“We formed a friendship,” recalled Mayo, “and we were doing our own kind of discourse about the sermon that was preached or the lectionary text. Beverley had the idea and said, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool if we did a Bible study at Congress?’ And I thought, there’s no better place for it.”
Kelly Smoke Patrick is a lifelong churchgoer and regular attendee of Faith & Fractured. She and Mayo were introduced by a mutual friend and, after getting to know one another by phone calls and texts, decided to become walking partners. Ironically, they ran into scheduling issues on their very first try, to which Mayo replied she had to get ready for Bible study that evening. When Patrick asked where it was taking place, Mayo replied, “At a bar.”
Patrick admits she was intrigued and went just to “looky-loo.” But what she found took her by surprise.
“It was amazing,” she said. “There were so many eclectic, beautiful people and beautiful stories—just the kind of people who you’d love to meet and mix and mingle with at a party. And these people brought themselves and their intellect into this Bibe study, and they came with questions. Aside from Pastor Valerie, I think I was the only person who attended church regularly as an adult. But we were all seekers.”
The conversations generally begin with Mayo reading the selected Scripture and giving it some framing, both historically and in a contemporary context. Sometimes she poses a question to get the conversation started, sometimes not, as those around the table have questions of their own. Wherever the conversation goes, before it closes, Mayo reads the Scripture again, asking if it sounds or feels different following the discussion. The approach has an impact; as Patrick describes it, “When anybody has a question, it’s not expected that Pastor Valerie will just answer it. We all wrestle with it. And while we’re discussing things, the Word is speaking as well.”
Asked why she thought so many non-churchgoers would be attracted to a Bible study, Patrick cited the location and the willingness of Mayo to let the conversation go wherever it goes.
“For whatever reason, some of the people in this group are fractured from the church—the body, the gathering,” said Patrick. “They’re still believers who still want God. The formal space of the church is what they’re not sure about. So we let God be God, but there’s no judgement in this space.”
Though participants are welcome to come and go as they wish or are able throughout the evening, relationships and bonds have clearly formed. The groups gathered for an Easter sunrise service in the bar’s courtyard, and when the regular gatherings took a brief hiatus when Makhubele had to travel out of the country, the group continued, and continues, to get together just to check in with each other and talk. “It’s been beautiful,” said Patrick.
Jesus said, “For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.” (Matthew 18:20) His words are proven true in the offerings of St. Peter’s and St. Titus’, where in taking the approach to meet people where they are, those who accept the invitation find space to wonder, ask, connect and discover—or rediscover—all the ways and places God is present in the world.
Christine McTaggart is the communications director for the Diocese of North Carolina.
